His debate with the Catholic
Al-Ma'mu`n took other measures to examine the Ima`m, that he might be successful through defeating him (in one session). He ordered his minister al-Fadl b. Sahl to summon the prominent theologians from among the rhetoricians and the religions such as the Catholic Archbishop, the High Rabbi, the Hindu High Priest, followers of Zoroaster,
1 Nestus the Roman medical scientist, and the rest of the theologians. Al-Fadl gathered them in al-Ma'mu`n's palace, and then he made them come in to him. Al-Ma'mu`n received them with hospitality and honor. Then he presented before them what he intended, saying: "I have gathered you for (something) good and wanted you to debate with my Medinan cousin, who will come to me. Come to me tomorrow, morning. None of you should be absent."
"We listen and obey you," they answered him.
Al-Ma'mu`n ordered Ya`sir, the retainer, to summon the Ima`m to debate with the scholars of the religions. Ya`sir hurried to the Ima`m and informed him of al-Ma'mu`n's statement. As for the Ima`m, he responded to that, then he turned to al-Hasan b. Mohammed al-Nawfali and said to him: "Nawfali, you are an Iraqi, and the heart of an Iraqi is not severe; so, what can you gain from causing your cousin to require us to meet with the polytheists and rhetoricians?"
Al-Nawfali understood al-Ma'mu`n's intention, so he said to the Ima`m: "May I be your ransom, he wants to put you to test, and he loves to know how much knowledge you have. He has, indeed, built his assumption on a shaky foundation, and evil, by Allah, is what he has built."
"And what has he built?" asked the Ima`m.
Al-Nawfali explained to the Ima`m what he was wary of and feared for him from them, saying: "The theologians and the heretics are the opponents of the scholars. That is because a scholar does not deny the undeniable, whereas rhetoricians, theologians, and
____________
1. He was one of the disciples of a prophet. It was said that he was sent to the childeren of Israel by a prophet.
(198 )
polytheists are people who deny and try to prove what is not true. If you argue with them and tell them that Allah is One, they would say: 'Prove His Oneness,' and if you say that Mohammed, may Allah bless him and his family, is the Messenger of Allah, they would say: 'Confirm his Message,' then they would press their lies on a person while he tries to disprove their lies, and they would continue to prove that he is mistaken till he abandons his argument; so, beware of them, may I be your ransom."
Al-Nawfali expressed his fears of those with whom the Ima`m would debate, for they would not intend to reach the reality and to know the truth; they would depend on fallacies in order to achieve their cheap objectives.
The Ima`m removed al-Nawfali's fears, saying:
"Nawfali, do you fear that they will disprove my argument?"
"No, by Allah," replied al-Nawfali, "I have never worried about you, and I hope that Allah will enable to have victory over them, Allah willing!"
"Would you like to know when al-Ma'mu`n will feel remorseful?" asked the Imam.
"Yes," al-Nawfali replied.
The Ima`m explained: "When he (al-Ma'mu`n) hears me argue with the people of the Torah quoting their own Torah, with the people of the Gospel quoting their own Gospel, with the people of the Psalms quoting their own Psalms, with the Zoroastrians arguing in their Persian language, with the Romans in their own Latin, and with the rhetoricians using their very rhetoric. So, if I closed the avenues of argument in the face of each arguing party and disproved his claim, making him renounce his statement from its onset and referring to my own statement, then al-Ma'mu`n will realize that he will not achieve what he aspires. It is then that he will feel regretful. And there is no strength save in Allah, the Most High, the Almighty."
Through these words the Ima`m, peace be on him, announced that he had boundless scientific abilities and that he was able to argue with all the people of the religions and beliefs, to refute their
( 199 )
imaginations, and to show them the way to the truth. He decided to make al-Ma'mu`n feel remorseful over those measures he took against him.
On the following day, al-Fadl b. Sahl went in a hurry to the Ima`m, peace be on him, and said to him: "May I be your ransom, your cousin (i.e. al-Ma'mu`n) is waiting for you. The people has gathered. What is your view of going to him?"
The Ima`m answered him that he was ready to attend (the session) and that he was going to al-Ma'mu`n. He went out (walking) with solemnity toward which faces were humble. He remembered Allah and came in to al-Ma'mu`n. The session was attended by the Ta`libiyyï~n, the Ha`shimites, the military commanders, Muslim and non-Muslim scholars. When the Ima`m came, al-Ma'mu`n and all those who were in the session stood up for him, received him with honor and magnification. The Ima`m sat while the people were still standing in order to show respect for him. A-Ma'mu`n ordered them to sit and they sat down. All the people in the session kept silent as a sign of respect for the Ima`m, and then al-Ma'mu`n turned to the Catholic Archbishop and said to him: "Catholic, this is my cousin 'Ali b. Mu`sa` b. Ja'far. He is on of the children of F`a`tima, daughter of our Prophet, may Allah bless him and his family, and of 'Ali b. Abu` Ta`lib, peace be on him. I would like you to debate with him on theology, argue with him, and show justice toward him.
"Commander of the faithful, how can I argue with a man who argue with me through a Book which we have denied and a Prophet whom I do not believe?" asked the Catholic.
The Catholic thought that the Ima`m, peace be on him, would produce evidence in support of his beliefs through some verses of the Holy Qur'an or through some words of the Messenger, may Allah bless him and his family. As he had no faith in the Qur'a`nic verses and the Prophetic traditions, he asked the Ima`m to give proof of his beliefs from their own Books, and the Ima`m answered him saying: "Christian, if I give proof from your Gospel, will you admit it?"
"Yes," retorted the Catholic, "By Allah, I will admit it. Can l repel what the Bible speaks about?"
( 200 )
"Question (me) whatever you desire and hear (my) answers," declared the Ima`m.
Q1: "What is your view of the Prophethood of 'Isa` (Jesus Christ) and his Book? Do you deny anything of them?"
Ans. 1: "I admit the Prophethood of 'Isa` (Jesus Christ) and his Book, of what he brought good news to his community, and the disciples admitted it. He who does not admit the Prophethood of Mohammed and His Book and does not bring good news of them to his community denies the Prophethood of 'Isa."
"Aren't precepts proved through two just witnesses?" asked the Catholic.
"Yes," replied the Ima`m.
"Therefore, name two witnesses from other than the people of your religion and from among those whom the Christians do not deny, that they might (confirm) the Prophethood of Mohammed. And ask us for the like of that from among other than the people of our religion," demanded the Catholic.
The Ima`m believed his statement, for he brought justice, saying: "Now, you have brought justice. Do you not accept from me the just one who was given preference (over the others) by al-Masï~h b. Maryam (Jesus, son of Mary)?"
"Who is the just one? Name him for me," asked the Catholic.
"What is your view of Yohanna` al-Daylami?" asked the Ima`m.
"Bravo! Bravo!" retorted the Catholic, "You have mentioned the most lovable of the people to al-Masïh."
Imam al-Rida`, the Prophet's grandson, asked him: "I challenge you to swear (by Allah), does the Bible say that Yohanna` says: Verily al-Masïh has told me of the religion of Mohammed, the Arab, given me good news of him, he will be (a prophet) after him, so I (Yohanna al-Daylami) gave good news of him to the disciples and they believed him."
The Catholic was unable to deny the Ima`m's statement, but he said: "Yohanna` did not name him for us, that we may recognize him."
The Ima`m asked him: "If we bring you someone who recites the Bible and recites to you Mohammed's name, his Household, and his community, then will you believe him?"
( 201 )
"A sound suggestion," the Catholic answered.
The Ima`m turned to Nestus, the Roman, and asked Him: "Have you memorized the third Book of the Bible?"
"I have thoroughly memorized it," was the answer.
The Ima`m, peace be on him, addressed the Catholic, saying: "Don't you recite the Bible?"
"Yes," he said.
The Ima`m said: "Therefore (I will) recite to you (some verses from) the third Book. If Mohammed, may Allah bless him and his family, his Household, and his community have been mentioned in it, then bear witness to me? If they have not been mentioned wherein, then do not bear witness to me."
The Imam recited to him some verses from the third Book. When he reached the reference to the Prophet, may Allah bless him and his family, he turned to the Catholic and asked him: "I challenge you to swear by al-Masï~h and his mother, did you know that I had knowledge of the Bible?"
"Yes," came the answer.
The Imam recited to him some verses from the third Book concerning the reference to the Prophet, his Household, and his community. Then he asked him: "What is your view? This is the statement of 'Isa b. Maryam. If you deny what the Bible says, then you will deny Mu`sa` and 'Isa. If you deny them, then it is obligatory (on people) to kill you, for you have denied your Lord, your Prophet, and your Book."
The Catholic said: "I do not deny the clear things in the Bible; rather I admit them."
The Imam turned to those who were present and asked them to remind the Catholic of his own words, and then he said to the Catholic: "Catholic, question me whatever you desire."
Q2: "Tell me about the disciples of 'Isa b. Maryam: How many were they? (Tell me) about the scholars of the Bible: How many were they?" the Catholic asked.
Ans. 2: "You have found the expert! As for (the number of) the disciples, they were twelve men. The best and the most learned of
( 202 )
them was loqa`. As for (the number of) the scholars of the Christians, it was three men: Yohnna`, the greatest-Ya`hi-, Yohanna` (Baqriqisiya), and Yohanna al-Daylami (Bazikha`r), who had the reference to the Prophet, may Allah bless him and his family, and his Household; it is he who gave good news to the community of 'Isa and the children of Isra'ïl of him (the Prophet)."
The Imam added, saying: "By Allah, we believe in 'Isa who believed in Mohammed, may Allah bless him and his family. We have nothing against 'Isa except his weakness and the paucity of his fasting and prayer."
When the Catholic heard the last words of the Ima`m's statement, he shouted: "By Allah, you have corrupted your knowledge! Your affair has become weak! I thought that you were the most learned of the Muslims!"
The Imam faced him calmly, asking: "Why?"
The Catholic lost his mind, so he began saying: "Because of your statement (which is) that 'Isa was weak with little fasting and praying, (while) 'Isa never broke fasting by day and never slept by night. He always fasted by day and prayed by night."
The Imam got ready to disprove the Christian belief which said that al-Masïh was a god other than Allah and was served! He asked the Catholic: "For whom did he (al-Masï~h) fast and pray?"
The Catholic did not answer, not knowing what to say. So the Ima`m turned to him, saying : "I want to ask you a question."
"Ask," said the Catholic, "I will answer you if I have knowledge of it."
"Did you not deny that 'Isa gave life to the dead with Allah's permission?" asked the Imam.
"I had denied that before," the Catholic answered, "he who gives life to the dead, heals the blind and the leprous is a lord worthy of being served."
The Ima`m disproved his statement, saying: "Indeed al-Yasa' did just as 'Isa, peace be on him, did: he walked on the water, gave life to the dead, healed the blind and the leprous. Why did his community not adopt him as a lord? Why did not anyone serve him (as a god) other
( 203 )
than Allah? He gave life to thirty-five men sixty years after their death. Catholic, you find in the Torah that these (men) were among the youths of the children of Isra'ïl whom Bukht Nasr (Nebuchadnezzar) chose from among the children of Isra'ïl when he invaded Jerusalem, that he took them and headed for Babylon, and that Allah, the Great and Almighty, dispatched al-Yasa' for them and he gave life to them. This (statement) is in the Torah. None denies it except an unbeliever."
The Catholic admired the Ima`m's knowledge of their Books, and then he said: "We have heard of it and recognized it."
The Ima`m turned to a Jew who was in the session and asked him to recite some verses of the Torah and he recited them, and there was in them a reference to some prophets. Then the Ima`m turned to the Catholic and asked him: "Were these (prophets) before 'Isa or was he before them?"
"Rather they were before him," was the answer.
The Imam began reciting to them some miracles of his grandfather, the greatest Prophet, the last of the prophets, saying: "Quraysh gathered around Allah's Messenger, may Allah bless him and his family, and asked him to give life to their dead. He sent with them 'Ali b. Abu` Ta`lib and said to him: 'Go to the cemetery and call out at the top of you voice to the people about whom they have asked: So-and-so, so-and-so, Mohammed Allah's Apostle, may Allah bless him and his family, say to you: Rise with the permission of Allah, the Great and Almighty! They rose and dusted off their heads. Quraysh walked toward them and asked them about their affairs, and then they told them that Mohammed was appointed as a prophet. They (the people who rose from the dead) said: 'We would that we knew him and believed in him!' He (the Prophet) healed the blind, the leprous, and the mad. The beasts, the birds, the jinn, and Satan spoke to him, but we did not adopt him as a lord other than Allah. We do not deny the favor of any of these (prophets). If you have adopted 'Isa as a lord, then it is permissible for you to adopt al-Yasa' and Hizqal as two lords, for they did just as 'Isa b. Maryam did such as giving life to the dead. Then a group of the children of Isra'ïl left their own homeland in thousands out of fear of death of plague. Allah made them die within one hour. The people of the village fenced them, and they remained wherein until their bones became decayed. One of the prophets of the children of Isra`'ï~l passed by them; he was amazed when he saw their many decayed bones. Allah revealed to him: 'Would you like (Me) to bring them to life and you warn them?'
" 'Yes,' was the answer.
"Allah revealed to him that he should call them out, and he said: 'Decayed bones, rise with Allah's permission.' All of them rose and dusted off their heads. Then Ibrahïm, Allah's bosom friend, took the birds, cut them into pieces, and put each piece on a mountain. He called them out and they came toward him walking. Then Mu`sa` b. 'Umra`n and his seventy companions whom he chose. They went with him to the mountain and said to him: 'You have seen Allah, then make us see Him.'
" 'I have not seen Him,' he said to them.
"They said:
'We will not believe in you until we see Allah manifestly. The thunderbolt overtook them, and all of them burnt. Only Musa remained (alive).'
"He (Musa) said: 'My Lord! I chose seventy men from among the children of Isra'ïl and brought them (to the mountain). Shall I return by myself? How shall my people believe what I will tell them about? If only You willed and perished them along with me before! Shall you perish us due to what the foolish did?
"So Allah, the Great and Almighty, gave life to them after their death. You cannot deny all these things which I have mentioned to you, for the Torah, the Bible, the Zabu`r (David's Psalms) the Furqa`n (Qur'a`n) have mentioned them. If all those who gave life to the dead, healed the blind, the leprous, and the mad were adopted as lords other than Allah, than you adopt them as lords. What is your view, Christian?"
The Imam criticized the Christians for their adopting al-Sayyid al-Masïh as a lord other than Allah, for he gave life to the dead, healed the blind and the leprous, while such miracles happened through the master of the prophets, the Messenger, may Allah bless him and his family, and through some great prophets, but they were not adopted and served as lords other than Allah, the Most High.
( 205 )
After the Catholic Archbishop had heard these brilliant words of the Ima`m, he addressed him, saying: "My view agrees with yours, and there is no god but Allah."
The Ima`m turned to the High Rabbi and said to him: "Turn to me; I want to ask you about the ten verses which were sent down to Musa b. 'Umran. Have you found written in the Torah the news of Mohammed, may Allah bless him and his family, and his community, (which says): When the last community and the followers of the Rider of the Camel (who) glorify the Lord very, very (much), (with) a new glorification in the new churches (he meant the mosques), then let the children of Isra`'ï~l flee toward them and their dominion, that their hearts may be tranquil, for there will in there hands swords with which they will take vengeance on the unbelieving communities in the regions of the earth. In this manner it has been written in the Torah?"
The Rabbi was amazed and began saying: "Yes, we have found that (written) in this manner."
The Imam, peace be on him, turned to the Catholic and asked him: "What about your knowledge of the Book of Sha'ya`?"
"I know it letter for letter," was the answer.
The Imam addressed the Catholic and the Rabbi and said to them: "Do you know that this (statement) is of his speech: O People, I have seen the picture of the Rider of the Donkey. He was wearing the gowns of light. And I have seen that the light of the Rider of the camel is like that of the moon."
They began saying: "Sha'ya did say that!"
The Imam turned to the Catholic and asked him: "Did you know that 'Isa said: 'I am going to my Lord and your Lord, and the Paraclete is coming who shall testify to my truth just as I testified for him, and he shall explain everything to you, and he shall be the one to expose all the sins of nations, and he shall be the one to smash the pillar of unbelief.'?"
The Catholic became amazed and said: "We admit all what you have just quoted of the Bible."
Then the Imam made him confess that through the Bible, saying: "Have you found that established in the Bible?"
( 206 )
"Yes," came the answer.
"O Catholic, could you tell me about the first Bible, how you lost then found it, and who put your existing Bible together?" asked the Imam.
The Catholic said at random: "We did not lose the Bible except for one single day then we found it fresh; Yohanna` (John) and Matti (Matthew) brought it back to us."
The Ima`m answered him, saying: "How little your knowledge of the Bible and its scholars is! If such is your claim, then why do you dispute with each other about the Bible? Rather, controversy has always revolved around the Bible which is in your hands today. Had it been the same as the first one, you would not have thus dispute (with one another) about it, but I shall inform you of such controversy myself: Be informed that when the first Bible was lost, the Christians gathered around their scholars and said to them: ''Isa` b. Maryam (Jesus son of Mary) has been killed, and we do not know where the Bible is. You are the scholars; so, what do you have with you?'
"Aluqa (Luke), Marqanus (Mark), and Yohanna (John) said to them: 'We have learned the Bible by heart; so, do not grieve in its regard, and do not forsake the churches, for we shall recite to you one Gospel after another on each Sunday till we put it all together.'"
The Imam added, saying: "Aluqa (Luke), Marqa`nu`s (Mark), Yohanna` (John), and Matti (Matthew) put this Bible of yours after you had lost the first (original) one. These four men were students of the early (disciples); are you aware of that?"
The Catholic admired the Ima`m and confessed to him that he had no knowledge of that, saying: "This I did not know and now I have learned from you things with which I was familiar and to which my heart testifies to be the truth. I have, therefore, gained a better understanding."
The Ima`m, peace be on him, turned to al-Ma'mu`n and those who were present from among his family and others than them. He said to them: "Bear witness to what he has just said."
"We testify," they said.
( 207 )
The Imam addressed the Catholic, saying: "I challenge you to swear by the son and his mother whether you know if Matti (Matthew) had said concerning the lineage of 'Isa : 'The Messiah is Dawud (David) son of Ibrahïm (Abraham) son of Isha`q (Isaac) son of Ya'qu`b (Jacob) son of Yahud (Yehuda) son of Khadrun, and that Marqa`nus (Mark) said about the lineage of 'Isa` that he was the word of Allah which he placed in the human body, so it became human, and that Aluqa (Luke) said that 'Isa b. Maryam (Jesus son of Mary) and his mother were humans of flesh and blood, so the Holy Spirit entered into them.' Then you testify that 'Isa had himself said the following about his creation: 'I will tell you the truth: None ascends the heavens except him who descends therefrom except the Rider of the Camel, the seal of the prophets, for he shall ascend to the heavens then shall he descend.' What do you say about that?"
The Catholic admitted what they said about the Messiah and what the Messiah said concerning his creation. He said: "This is the speech of 'Isa, and we do not deny it."
The Imam said to him: "If so, what do you say about the testimony of Aluqa (Luke), Marqanus (Mark), and Matti (Matthew) with regard to 'Isa and what they had attributed to him?"
"They lied about him," was the answer.
The Imam turned to the leaders and the scholars who were present in his session and said to them: "People, has he not (a moment ago) testified to their truthfulness and said that they were the scholars of the Bible and what they said is the truth?"
Defeat appeared on the Catholic's face, and he asked the Ima`m not to question him, saying: "Scholar of the Muslims, I would like you to excuse me from discussing these men."
The Imam excused him, and then he said to him: "Question me whatever you desire."
The Catholic admired the Ima`m's knowledge, which was a natural extension to that of his grandfather, the master of all creatures, Mohammed, may Allah bless him and his family. Then he said to the Ima`m with submission and admiration: "Let someone other than me ask you. By Allah, I did not think that there was a scholar like you among the Muslims."
( 208 )
The Catholic bowed his head, and the session shook with saying: "There is no god but Allah! Allah is greater!" Al-Ma'mu`n and the others came to know that Allah had given the Ima`m to this community as a gift just as He had given his grandfathers to it and supplied them with abundant knowledge.
